what size lionel transformer do i need what size lionel transformer do i need

Amperes = VA/Secondary Volts or 40VA/28V = 1.43 amperes. Join Today! If you're looking to only have one loop with multiple sidings then you'll only need 1 source of power for the whole layout. For many first-time train buyers, once the initial excitement of setting up the train and watching it run has passed, the desire to make it do more usually begins. In three-rail systems, the outer rails are both grounded, and the center rail is "hot.". Here are some guidelines for the most common wiring jobs you'll find. They run on three rail track. The larger wire is usually more expensive and more challenging to work with. Most recommend the TPCs over the powermasters The CW 80 will work to begin with. ransformers were issued by Lionel thoughout the Post War period. But were talking the trains that are in the absolute best condition and might not have ever run on the track. For a transformer less or equal to 500 kilovolt-amperes, a typical %Z impedance may vary between 2.3% and 5.2% based on the voltage level. The other type of cars are the Scale cars, which are exact or near-exact replicas of actual freight cars. A large number of the Lionel Collectors Club UK use this set up to good effect. If the second digit is 9, it could be either, so be careful when considering one of them. Some systems will use bluetooth technology enabling you to control the trains with your tablet or cell phone. American Flyer Trains were made in several gauges. Power the odd blocks with the other transformer. Adding more freight or passenger cars [also known as rolling stock] to your set is another way to quickly expand your railroad. It has FasTrack connectors on one end and O Gauge track pins on the other. Kind Regards Steve, QUOTE: by Dave Has anyone here ever blown a transformer from hauling a double-headed Allegheny coal drag up a 2 percent grade?. They run on O Gauge track, but they are not exact O Scale cars. On the flip side, the new transformers do not seem to work as well with the prewar whistle tenders.Has anyone else noticed this anomaly? I suggest that you proactively lay an 10-2 AWG NM cable (or at least 12-2) along the track and tap into it as needed to keep the voltage up. If you have the proper wire size and a properly-sized circuit breaker, you should not have any problems using the old transformer. Lionel Trains Pocket Price Guide 1901-2022. In most cases, because we are dealing with relatively low voltage and amperage and in a normally stable temperature and humidity climates, our wiring does not require any extra insulation. If your track joints aren't near perfect or if you should want to split that loop into two blocks, you'll double the voltage drop. Take the hint. Many will still run on the track in your starter set, but because they are scale sized, the bodies of these cars may be slightly wider and longer than those in your set. How to open tamper resistant outlets, Xxcopy vs Xcopy: Command line copy utilities, Where to connect the red wire to a light switch, Brains 25 cents: The story behind the meme. A starter set is the best way to start with the train hobby. Price Received. Never had a problem. Its expensive, but the same factors that drove KW prices down are also driving ZW prices down. Lionel 1033 90 Watt Multi-control Transformer (102) $9.99 1 bid $16.00 shipping 2d 9h Lionel Type Z 250 Watt Transformer & One 167 Whistle Controllers. In most cases, stranded wire is preferred because the multiple threads provide more conductivity and flexibility. There have been issues with chopped waveform transformers, i.e. If you're experiencing problems with your wiring due to humidity, for example, you are going to face even greater issues with the trains and tracks themselves. When they were manufactured by The American Flyer Manufacturing Company, they were made in Standard Gauge and a version of "O" gauge. We're sorry. Another classic is the Automatic Gateman. For a classic setup of a single freight train running on a 48 (or smaller) sheet of plywood, a 90-watt Lionel 1033 or 1044 is an excellent choice. [:)]. And again regardless of scale or manufacturer, switch machines of these two types will have similar needs and performance. Right now I am running 8 motors on one KW [the new one I found] and got the old one for reserve. http://www.lccuk.org.uk/lccuk Regards Nick Save Reply Quote N Nick12DMC Registered Should it be a Lionel or should it be an MTH with command control? Not unlike the relationship between the locomotive engineer and the fireman. Dave: That certainly qualifies, don't forget the anti-gun lobbyist with the picket sign's. properly wired transformer can handle any amount of track. As Paul said, the power needed doesn't have anything to do with the distance; but the voltage needed does. The choice of a control system is somewhat, but not necessarily, dependent on which manufacturers engines you prefer or have the most of. The iconic and legendary 270-wattLionel ZW was the biggest and best transformer Lionel made in the postwar era. Some great beginner accessories are the #12052 Fastrack Highway Signal set, which is a set of highway signals that blink as the train goes by. I know my train club had an issue with conventional locomotives not running properly on a layout with DCS and TMCC and apparently solved it by replacing a Lionel transformer with an MRC transformer that puts out a pure sine wave. Just get a Lionel #12053 Accessory wire set and enough extra wire to connect from the wire set back to your transformer [speaker wire works well]. For a 300W set up this will cost you about 100. Get 20 articles about compact layouts and how to build them. Ryan developsmodeltrainlayouts for public andprivate display. Doug, there's definitely room for the liberal arts approach to the hobby--I have a journalism degree; how I became a computer technician was pretty much an accident. This drawing illustrates all of the key functionality of a Lionel KW transformer. What size Lionel transformer do I need? As time goes on you can add higher wattage bricks one by one. The Lionel ZW is Lionel's most iconic transformer of the 1950s and 1960s, and perhaps one of its most iconic products, period. That means there are lots of them. Make sure you are getting the right type of power supply for your layout. OTTS Founder The Lionel RW also happens to be a great transformer for Marx or American Flyer trains too, when you connect the track leads to the B and U posts instead of the A and U posts youd normally use for most Lionel setups. Beginners Ask Trains New trains; old transformers. Effort. The same is true for other electronic projects around your layout and inside buildings, train cars, and even locomotives. For most layouts, and most scales, Number14 stranded wire will work best for your bus. Thus an appliance with a 15-ampere plug (the usual kind with parallel blades) must draw no more than 12 amperes. Different wiring projects call for different standards. The 190-wattLionel KWwas the second biggest and second best transformer of the postwar era. God bless TCA 05-58541 Benefactor Member of theNRA, Member of the American Legion, Retired Boss Hog of Roseyville , KC&D Qualified. What about removing flanges from diesel wheels? A small set that came with track, transformer, etc. Effort. Ryan developsmodeltrainlayouts for public andprivate display. You must be signed in to continue. What type is your old transformer? The good news is, Lionel made a lot of good transformers over the years. This means that they are not exact 1:48 replicas of the real thing but instead are selectively compressed to negotiate the tight turns of regular Lionel track. 40-500 50 Watt AC Transformer - 50 Watt AC transformer suitable for . Get the Classic Toy Trains newsletter delivered to your inbox twice a month, Calculating transformer size for layout size. Used 1033's for sidings and the switching yard its self. Lionel developed and perfected its model designs and layouts during the Pre-War Era (1901-1942). Please see our article on Fastrack here for more information. As an example, look at these two cars closely: While both are gondola cars and run on O Gauge track, note how the car on the left is much longer than the one on the right. Thanks! Lionel makes two expansion sets for this purpose. But a 12-gauge solid wire is one strand, while a 12-gauge stranded wire may be made up of more than a dozen much smaller individual strands spun together. 40-200 20 Watt DC Transformer - Small DC transformer suitable for powering a single HO diesel or steam locomotive equipped with Proto-Sound 3.0. Atlas and Bachmann have the same transformers with 80 watt outputs as well that get good reviews and would be appropriate for a smaller layout. And both of them give more wattage per handle than a KW or ZW. Tech Support for the OGR Forum (NOT FOR TRAINS), PRR fellas!lets build an S2!! Access to this requires an OGR Forum Supporting Membership. As your layout grows so, too, will its power demand. If you are using only LEDs for lighting, you could get away with even less. If your layout is bigger than 48, you may actually find trains run a bit better with a KW than with a smaller transformer. That was before all the technician assemby work was outsourced overseas and they left the poor engineers to fend for themselves. For a classic setup of a single freight train running on a 48 (or smaller) sheet of plywood, a 90-watt Lionel 1033 or 1044 is an excellent choice. I have a 3amp, 40watt transformer. (Electrical Contractor with dear old Dad for 30 years) Regards Steve. It will require a minimum of 108' of track just to do a basic rectangle before I add any switches, etc. Faq No: 1029 Of course, the answer to that question depends on many things. This will solve the slowdown problem. Accessories often interact with the train, such as a crossing gate that lowers as the train passes. The old transformer is not really the problem, the problem is the supply wire, particularly under heavyload (or derailment without the benefit of a quicker breaker). Ive talked about why here. Trainz carries a variety of books that build upon the information listed above. All Lionel transformer comparisons should include the common 1033, RW, LW, KW and ZW transformers. Number 26 to 20 wire (depending on the length of your bus) will be sufficient for most applications. For a classic setup of a single freight train running on a 48 sheet of plywood, a 90 watt Lionel 1033 or 1042 is an excellent choice. A Veteran, whether active duty, retired, national guard, or reserve, is someone who, at one point in his or her life, wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America" for an amount of "up to and including my life.". This will spread the load of your lighted passenger consist across the two transformers. Best bang for the buck for command are the Lionel 180W Powerhouse bricks IMO. Price Received. Older transformers I had this issue with are RW, 1033, KW, ZW.newer transformers were all made by MTH. The KW used to be really expensive, but since Lionel started making big transformers again, you can get a KW for what a 1033 used to cost, which makes it a very nice bargain today on a rugged and powerful transformer with an impressive presence. Today, with some luck, you can get one for closer to $100. Checklist Transformer Size Calculator When sizing a transformer, you need to know the kilovolt-amps (KVA) that your machine requires. Our community is FREE to join. The only time you might not get your full moneys worth is during operation of locomotives equipped with Lionels TMCC or MTHs DCS command-control systems. If your going to run anything more that what came with the set then you should probably upgrade to something a little bigger. If youre comfortable doing some work yourself, you can buy a fixer-upper, and my informational links will tell you more about fixing one yourself. The Lionel ZW has four sets of posts and six controls. This tool only evaluates common voltages for North America (ie. Of all the questions fielded by the staff of Classic Toy Trains, inquiries regarding layout wiring top the list.While you might expect numerous questions regarding complex techniques or new technologies, CTT. Replies and comments they make will be collapsed/hidden by default. electronically controlled outputs. The transformer, when operated at the lower frequency, may . The locomotives are battery-powered and made of durable plastic. Lionel makes a seemingly infinite number of cars to in a variety of colors, types, and road names. All Lionel transformer comparisons should start here. For a passenger train with lighted cars, getting a little more power isnt a bad idea. I cant see you needing more than a capacity of 5 amps. Been there, done that. Like all electronic products, you want to make sure your power supplies are rated by the appropriate body for your country (UL for example). I really doubt you will need more than that. Although I am an electrical engineer, I just add stuff until the transformer gets too warm and then I branch off and add another. I'm sure I'll need more help along the way, so I'll be checking back in with more silly questions! It does not work with O27. At an average 14 volts - this is 9x14 = 126 watts - the ZW is getting quite warm and I have not run an accessory or another train yet! Its a bargain at that price. If you have a starter set and have had thoughts like this, youre not alone. Price Received. Here are a few: --The Lionel Fastrack Book, by Robert Schleicher. Whatever colors and pattern you choose, just make sure to keep a good notebook handy to reference later. Sell Your Trains Yourself On eBay. What does a Lionel transformer do? If you were to get a ZW 275 you need external short protection. Ive talked more about the KW here. There was a video by Mike Reagan from Lionel about better smoke output from a chopped wave transformer, but the pure sine wave didn't cause any operational issues. A: According to Lionel's head of customer service, on the underside of their CW80 transformers, starting in late 2009, the vendor applied a sticker that states "QC50" on it. To determine the maximum transformer current, divide the transformer VA by transformer secondary voltage. The whistle requires more power than the outfits that don't have it. The wire can also be purchased as solid or stranded. 4.1 4.1 out of 5 stars (15) Ages: 14 years and up. That said, if youre uncomfortable fixing a transformer, I wont look down on you for buying one someone else fixed up. Stop it with your hand to full stall, and it goes up to four amps--sixty watts--trying to pull. 10 Easy Ways to Improve a Christmas Train Display, Wiring a Model Railroad for Block Operation, How to Build and Wire Reverse Loops for Model Trains, How to Choose the Right Transformer for Your Model Trains, Compatibility of Different Model Train Brands, HO Scale Track Plans for Model Train Layouts, buildings, streets, and other scenic accessories. Viola, DCS on alternate power blocks, Max signal, Happiness. Don't just discard your starter set pack, though. Sign-up for email today! Also, you must have a built-in circuit breaker to prevent a short circuit from causing permanent damage to the power supply or the trains. You don't want to try to solder even Number 16 gauge wire right to your rails, however. The smaller of the two is # 12028, which turns your oval into this: There is also the larger 12031 plan, which has a couple extra straight track pieces included, creating this: Even better, one or more of the expansion sets can be combined to create even more interesting track layouts. A small set that came with track, transformer, etc. If the transformer fails, you most likely have a short or overload somewhere in the control circuit. . To build on the point you are running MTH trains and therefore will probably go DCS eventually: I would break the track into blocks of about 5 feet in length. For instance, a 100 kilovolt-ampere transformer with 8.32 kilovolts (or less) on the high side has a typical value of 2.6% impedance. M3103. Just connect the jumper wires to the same connections on the back of your transformer as your original connections, and make sure that the wires are not crossed. It is also a good idea to run your accessories off of a separate power supply and wire grid from the trains themselves. What do I need to do that with? For more realistic operation, you need some kind of speed control (throttle) between the 10340 Automatic Reversing Unit and your transformer. I will make a note here. Mike to the forum. I covered the more common ones, but if you have another vintage Lionel transformer of more than 75 watts and its in good condition, theres no reason not to use it. I went to mth Z1000, jason's train shop has the best price's I have seen for these. I recently read an article/product review in the OGR magazine for the new Lioneltransformerand wassurprisedto learn that not all voltage outputwave-formsare created equal (pure sine wave versus some type of clipped sine wave). The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. As your needs grow, you can employ a larger transformer of fixed voltage. If youre buying a transformer, youll be able to easily find one that a professional refurbished and upgraded with the links I provide below. The smaller the number, the larger the wire. A solid and stranded wire of the same gauge will be the same total diameter. A bigger transformer is better and always looks nicer too! Some of the variables are obvious, others not so much. Lest I offend, in another plane of existence I was an electronics tech. DCC decoders are one good example where the wire colors are critical. the amount of track is not what is important here. Good choices are the Lionel 32923 Accessory Transformer, or another 80-watt transformer like the one included in your set, #14198. And even when Lionel trains run on AC, they sometimes do some DC trickery. Any of the below transformers from M.T.H. For Lionel power the 45 watts is good for a 4 by 8 as a rule of thumb to compensate poor track you just use more feeders. The fraction of your transformer's power lost in the track will therefore be well under 10 percent, since it is proportional to the voltage drop. However, if you begin adding more than 1 or 2 cars, be sure to get some extra track, or your longer train will be chasing its tail very quickly. Most people start with a pre-packaged train set. Classic cars have a 5 or 6 as their second digit [25051, 16686, etc]. Needless to say the "Spring into Spring" train show very nearly became unsprung! The 1044 is just a 1033 in a . Here are some simple definitions for these electrical terms: Most power supplies will be labeled as to the scales they are meant to handle. The chances are that little power supply isn't going to keep the train running over a full mile, however. Are you running command or conventional? The preferred choice for wiring control panels is telephone or telecommunications wire. The smaller of the two is #12028, which turns your oval into this: There is also the larger 12031 plan, which has a couple extra straight track pieces included, creating this: Even better, one or more of the expansion sets can be combined to create even more interesting track layouts. As the train goes by, the door to the shed opens and a figure pops out, and once the train has passed the figure re-enters the building and the door shuts. Lionel 1033 90 watt Transformer Postwar from 1950s-60s Whistle, Direction. David, looking at your layout I notice there is a two rail and a three rail ? This thing has more power then I will ever need. Buyers truly want all-original trains that have never been tampered with. What size Lionel transformer do I need? Keep the power supplies in an area where they get plenty of air circulation to prevent overheating. Although not necessarily a mandated standard, white, black and or red are used for track power on most layouts - if for no other reason than these colors are easiest to find. That might work, but it's probably borderline, especially if you are using something like a 1033 transformer that tops out at 16 volts. Wow.thanks for all the advice so far, guys!! And of course, Lionel also makes lots of figures to populate your town. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. I have a basement that offers an 18" concrete ledge that goes around theentire perimeter of the house that lends itself perfectly to a neat layout. Obviously, for a lot of people, the $700 Lionel ZW-L transformer is overkill. Get the Classic Toy Trains newsletter delivered to your inbox twice a month, WELCOME TO THE FORUM Mike!! The first is the traditional or classic size, which are the cars that match starter sets. These transformers are much cheaper than they were even just a few years ago, but that just makes them a bigger bargain today. I'm guessing the MTH Z1000 is around $100 and the other suggestions are much more expensive. I run an MTH 4-6-2 PS-1 pulling five Madisons on about fifty feet of track and the transformer I am using (Z-4000) has a digital amp readout. RemembertheVeterans. I thought an ENGINEER was the guy driving the train? :-). Of course, if you happen to have enough Number12 wire left over from a home renovation project to install all the buses on your small layout, it won't do any harm. Expanding the basic oval from the set is the quickest way to add more interest to your trains. Get updates and special offers via email from Trains.com brands! If you want to connect ten landscape lights to a magnetic transformer, and the lights use 30 watts each, you would need a 375 watt transformer. Sign up for new product releases, promotions, and more. Unlimited Members, sign in to enjoy sitewide access. If you plan to add a second loop for another train in the near future, the 14198 would be a wise investment. I have one R transformer from which I run everything - but only 1 train at a time and a few accessories for a layout in a space about 24 by 10 ft. Some people even find it fun. This would be more than enough for any single train and a few accessories. Because of this, like with lighting and accessories, your power supply and wiring for switch machines do not need to be as robust. I'm not sure I completely understand your question. We use cookies to ensure that we give you the best experience on our website. Atlas and Bachmann have the same transformers with 80 watt outputs as well that get good reviews and would be appropriate for a smaller layout. CW80 Transformer. To my knowledge, you should have no compatibility issues with a pure sine wave track feed with any major brand locomotive. Professionals Need: Kindle Direct Publishing Indie Digital & Print Publishing Made Easy Amazon Photos Unlimited Photo Storage Free With Prime: Prime Video Direct Ill try to find a link to it for you. Sell Your Trains Using a Live Auction House. A bigger transformer is better and always looks nicer too! I think the RW is a bit better value, but that could just be timing. Unless I'm all wet it sounded like there are somecompatibilityissues with certain locomotives versus manufacturer's transformer output wave forms. The accessory activation track (#12029) is used to activate Lionel trackside accessories. (NEW/LIKE NEW), running TMCC And DCS engines with DCS handheld, terrible crash in Greece, multiple fatalities, Its.Public Delivery Track ..NEWSpecial run corner, Improving Appearance of 0-gauge Tubular Track. no it isn't. There isn't a one-size-fits-all solution, so you'll need to consider what you want to do and measure your options accordingly. It would be advantageous if OGR magazine would put an article together comparing the major manufacturers transformers output waveform compatibility/ incompatibilitywith the various manufacturer's locomotives - Atlas O, Weaver, 3rd Rail, MTH , Lionel etc and conventional , DCS , TMCC, Legacy command control. I know this has nothing to do with Mike's original problem but is more of a reflection on Trainman's reply. Length of track or type of track doesn't (or shouldn't) matter. Some DCC systems also recommend solid wire for certain applications. Within that range, it is generally recommended to go for the most robust power supply possible. As cheap as the 1033 is, if youre going to buy a transformer, you might as well pay a few dollars more to get a 1033. Price Received. I don't want to buy a lot more track, but then find out the transformer is too weak, if that make sense. From 25 Watts to 275 Watts, a Lionel transformer could be found for every power requirment from simple circles of track to extensive railroads. The new Lionel ZW-L is getting a lot of good reviews and is a very powerful transformer for most layouts. That transformer will only prolly handle 1 engine and depending on how long it is will depend on how many extra feeders you will need around the layout. HO trains are very durable and are made with high quality parts and pieces to ensure the longevity of the Lionel train brand! HO gauge is very popular because of its size. All Lionel transformer comparisons should start here. If you add feeders to the track at the farthest point (remember to get the same wire to the same rails) you will not slow down at the farthest point. Does Lionel still make standard gauge trains? Digital command control systems (DCC) uses digital information to control the electrical power to the train. A locomotive on a mile-long loop will draw as many amps as it does on a 4x8 platform. If you continue to use this site we will assume that you are happy with it. It does run on conventional power but not great and no whistle or bell. They do not include a track or power supply, so you will need to buy both separately. This type of transformer is cheap, its reliable, and its easy to find. I thought you wanted information related to your layout not operations at a trains show. Like command control, these trains still require a constant voltage to the rails. To determine the required transformer VA, multiply the secondary voltage by the required amperes: For example, VA=Volts x Amperes or 28V x 1.2 amperes = 33.6 VA. To determine the maximum transformer current, divide the transformer VA by transformer secondary voltage. You should take care, however, to replace worn cords and wires. We use cookies to ensure that we give you the best experience on our website.